tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6904713839696769313.post5592525877185075114..comments2024-02-26T00:27:47.712-08:00Comments on Cross-Up: Who Wins Out -- Heroes or Villains?Voltechhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01038586008627390463noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6904713839696769313.post-78237251819754709782014-05-05T22:02:37.955-07:002014-05-05T22:02:37.955-07:00Now how in the world did I miss this comment? I&#...Now how in the world did I miss this comment? I'm not sure, but I'm going to do the sensible thing and call the Disqus/Blogger tag team a couple of butts and move on with my life.<br /><br />"Faize over Edge"<br /><br /><br /><br />I don't blame you for that one. Star Ocean 4 would have been a substantially-better game if it focused on Faize and his journey (and dumped the better part of the cast). But for what it's worth, his presence was appreciable -- and I can see where you're coming from when appreciating anti-heroes. They're willing to get their hands dirty, and do more than just ask questions; more often than not, they're the ones trying to solve them in ways that the hero du jour can't. Call it a way to satisfy an audience's itch; fantasy worlds beget curiosity, and we all want to be sated in some way. Anti-heroes (and villains, by extension) are just one of plenty of ways to make that happen.<br /><br /><br />I'll tell you what, though. Whether heroes or villains win out, it's their interplay that's most important. They can both ask questions, answer them, and take action -- and they can do that in response to each other, making their product that much better. SO4 proved that already; seeing Faize go from fawning over Edge to declaring he was unfit to lead was one of the best elements of that game. Edge may have won out in the end, but they both fought even before they crossed blades. There's something to be had -- and enjoyed -- from that in a story.<br /><br /><br />Soooooooooooo...cop-out answer for the win!Voltech44noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6904713839696769313.post-32471015245637299052014-04-25T21:53:58.763-07:002014-04-25T21:53:58.763-07:00Oh, right. I can't believe I forgot that litt...Oh, right. I can't believe I forgot that little tidbit. But it is an important one; I guess when you get down to it, the villain is the true mover-and-shaker of the plot by design. I mean, if a hero got on the move to try and take action before the villain got moving, that would risk bringing the story into some controversial pre-crime territory, wouldn't it? That's probably not the best place to go...unless the story has guns that make people puke on command.<br /><br /><br />That was my one unyielding takeaway from Minority Report -- if only because my brother and buddy will never, ever let those puking scenes go.<br /><br /><br />Also, your Cobra forces would have been no match for my unstoppable squadron of...uh...<br /><br /><br />*thinks back to first grade*<br /><br /><br />Stuffed animals? Man, sometimes I wonder about my childhood...Voltech44noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6904713839696769313.post-42580499753333426182014-04-25T21:47:12.328-07:002014-04-25T21:47:12.328-07:00Aha...so you like Naruto, but you...shall we say, ...Aha...so you like Naruto, but you...shall we say, "take issue" with Sasuke. Interesting. I find that veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting.<br /><br />*strokes nonexistent Confucius beard*<br /><br />Actually, you bring up a good point, and something that I've been mulling over for a while thanks to Captain America 2 and Infamous. It really is remarkable how much of a difference a strong motivation can make for a character. Like you said, what's important is that characters are well-written, with their alignment being just a byproduct of that, so to speak. And one of the major steps in making a good character comes from having a strong, appealing motivation -- something for the character to struggle with, and form the backbone of one (or more) conflicts.<br /><br />I've got issues with Infamous' Delsin, but to his credit he's got a simple but effective motivation to set him on his way: "I want to save my tribe from getting rocked to death by psychic concrete." (It makes sense in context.) That's it. That's all I really need to get going, and at least try to get behind a character. Compare that to, say, Lightning Farron, who needs THREE SEPARATE GAMES just to get one ironclad motivation...and even then, I have my doubts that Lightning Returns gives us anything worthwhile. (I may or may not know how that game ends, if the four words I accidentally read somwehere are true. If they are, then I'm going to weep for several years.)<br /><br />"I think good guys aren't always well liked is because some people don't know how to write them well."<br /><br /><br /><br />True enough, but you know, I've always found that funny. I'm not going to pretend like writing's the easiest thing in the world, but damned if some people go out of their way to make it a lot harder than it really is. Ah, c'est la vie.Voltech44noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6904713839696769313.post-69071619912698759712014-04-25T08:13:51.056-07:002014-04-25T08:13:51.056-07:00Villains. They make things happen. Villains ac...Villains. They make things happen. Villains act more often than not. The Hero Reacts. A hero is nothing without his nemesis. A villain without a hero is free to carve carnage. During times of peace heroes even turn into villains because they realize peace is boring.<br /><br /><br />This is the reason I decided to be the kid on the block with the Cobra figures. Sure my minions got their butts kicked by G.I. Joes every time, but I always got a chance to play. I always had a scheme ready for my eventual takeover of the neighborhood.Eric R. Jacksonhttp://dimanagul.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6904713839696769313.post-47825379603709255422014-04-25T02:31:37.634-07:002014-04-25T02:31:37.634-07:00Forgive me for taking the coward's way out of ...Forgive me for taking the coward's way out of the discussion, but I find myself liking characters that are well written. Or I like the jerkass with a heart of gold but hides it due to his antisocial tendencies. Not sure which. >.><br /><br />I think good guys aren't always well liked is because some people don't know how to write them well. "Okay, so-and-so is a nice guy. So what?" is what I sometimes ask myself when I see some people defend characters. Superman sometimes falls into this mold if the person can't find good examples of the man of steel being an interesting, compelling, sympathetic character. <br /><br />What makes me like Naruto more than most hyperactive, boy scout protagonists is his undying commitment and passion in his beliefs. He is the ultimate pollyanna in a world of corruption, warfare, and child soldiers. He changes the lives of all the pessimistic people he meets. He gets others out of a funk and tells them "Hey, the sky is blue! Take a look sometime when you get your head out of the dirt!" Naruto is a genuinely kind young man, has no conventional smarts, but he's got a bigger view of the world than the vast majority of the cast. He finds the good in life, and he'll fight to the death to prove his point or demonstrate his convictions. He never backs down, even when sometimes he should.<br /><br />As for bad guys, they seem to have more room to be certain kinds of people. There can be more variety, especially if they have some moral ambiguity. In theory at least. Hollywood likes to show off how much they like safe archetypes; but there are still exceptions occasionally.<br /><br />Good thing you mentioned Loki. He was at his worst in The Avengers. A plain old villain with no compelling motivation. The only good thing out of it was when the Hulk flung the tiny guy around like a wet towel. (I still cry from laughing hysterically.) But in the Thor films, he's brilliant. He has the charisma and the mischief, but his fear of being deemed inferior upsets him greatly. He doesn't fit in with the others due to his heritage, and he likes to pretend he has no ties to the family who raised him. (That scene in the middle of Thor 2 with the illusion of his composure in the prison was an absolutely beautiful moment, captured well only in the film medium.)<br /><br />Loki and Naruto have two similar commonalities that hit me. One, they have strong motivations and goals. Two, they have the desire and drive to get the mission done. Three, both have aspects of their personas that serve as a hinderance to their ambitions (Naruto is passionate but dumb and stubborn; Loki is mischievous and deceitful but insecure). Though Naruto is the hero, he has moments in which his actions seem to aid in the villain's favor. Loki may be a cocky jerk, but he still has some respect and attachment for his foster family.<br /><br />As long as characters have these kind of contridictions to their selves and they are written by someone who knows what they are doing, hero and villain can be beloved. Maybe throwing in some catchy lines or memes can help too. Or an action scene that marks a crowning moment of badass. Or explosions. But then you're not trying by that point.Melanie Lightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6904713839696769313.post-54212358075333377372014-04-24T21:51:32.316-07:002014-04-24T21:51:32.316-07:00I sure hate to admit it, but yeah, you're righ...I sure hate to admit it, but yeah, you're right. The Dark Knight wouldn't have been TDK without the Joker. I'm not going to say that movie was perfect, but it brought plenty thanks to a certain magical clown...type...thing. It kind of bothers me that the same couldn't be said of Batman, given that he's kind of the main character, but hey. I guess what's important is that SOMEBODY got to stand in the spotlight. And earn it, every step of the way.<br /><br />To be fair, though, there's always a chance that a character's lines -- hero or villain -- might end up being remembered for the wrong reasons. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKodGsZfg-E<br /><br /><br /><br />And yet he was still the best character in that movie. Make of that what you will. I sure have. To my immediate and crippling despair.Voltech44noreply@blogger.com